Chamblee54

PG got into a discussion with a Jesus worshiper a few days ago. We will try to keep this recap brief; the whole nine yards is available here. (The host of this discussion did not indulge in personal attacks, or label PG a “troll” and ban him. He is to be commended for this. His words will be used sparingly in this account, but are available at the link above.) The theme of Chamblee54  is “pretty pictures and ugly opinions”, and if you want to skip the text and look at the pictures, no one will say anything. The pictures today are Union soldiers, from the War Between the States, from The Library of Congress  (The final product is 2300 words. So much for good intentions.)
The other party, who we will call Saul, had gotten into a typing contest at Pyromaniacs, a Jesus worship blog that does not lack self esteem. Saul posted the whole shooting match at his blog. (If the internet charged by the word, Saul would be broke.) PG saw this, and made a comment: “I am also banned from commenting at [edited]. Unlike you, I am not a Jesus worshiper. I saw this debate spilling over, and was tempted to look through it for a minute. Then I saw how many words you were spilling into the internet. I will say the same thing here that got me banned from [edited]…good grief.”
Saul wrote back that PG should be a Jesus worshiper, and tossed a few Bible verses at PG, who replied “Thank you for your concern. I have had too many bad experiences with Jesus to ever want to follow him.” Saul asked for an example, and PG replied “I see Jesus in the words and deeds of his believers. I don’t see the point of specifics, but it has been awful. I should mention that I do not agree with your scheme for life after death.”
PG did not participate in the next part of the conversation. Saul, and another reader, exchanged thousands of words about fine points of Jesus worship doctrine. There is a three part rule that PG has for discussions like this… I don’t understand what is discussed, it is none of my business, and I am not interested. Finally, PG made a two word comment… “Good grief”. Saul responded with talk about life after death. (The frog asked the scorpion why he was stung,  after the frog took the scorpion over the river. The scorpion said, it’s my nature.)
PG was getting warmed up. “Growing up in Jesus happy America, there are things which you are told to be true. As I get older, I have decided that I don’t agree with many of these ideas.
It is a given in our culture that Jesus is the Christ. This is assumed to be true, and seldom challenged. As you may know, Jesus and Christ have two very different meanings. (Some think that Christ is the last name of Jesus.) I don’t think it is profitable to argue one way or another about this, so lets just say I am neutral…Jesus may be the Christ, and may not be. I don’t see how this affects my life on earth, or what happens after I die.
I do think the Jesus Worship obsession with life after death is morbid and sick. If you have faith in G-d to take care of you after you die, what is there to worry about? You might have to base your religion on taking care of each other on this planet, where we can make a difference.
A reader named David chimes in. “Well, it is your decision about the true identity of Jesus that affects you. If Jesus is the Christ, then His words from the Bible are true. If He is not the Christ, then His words are meaningless. In the end, you have the free will to decide for yourself what you believe.”
PG had a reply: “Thank you for taking the time to participate in this discussion. There are some serious flaws in your argument. I could go over them one by one, but I don’t see the point of it. Your statement is based on conjecture about life after death, despite the talk about “dead to sin”. I have two core differences with Jesus worship religion. 1-G-d does not write books.2- My opinions about Jesus have nothing to do with life after death. The Bible based talk I see in these blogs does not impress me.
Saul’s reply is a key part of this discussion. “Chamblee, I ask, what is your authority for truth?”
PG replied: “I am beginning to suspect that the word truth is obsolete. Not the concept, the english word we use to describe it. I have recently posted a three part series that was prompted by this comment on facebook… “I think we’re having a misunderstanding about what I mean by emotional truth aka “your truth.” It’s a new concept for me too.” The word truth is taking a beating, and may be down for the count.
Before I answer your question, I should discuss a bit further my views about the “magic book”. It is a collection of texts, from different languages and cultures, that had been copied by hand. These texts were assembled, translated (often more than once), and edited by a committee of the Catholic Church. They are the product of man, written in man’s languages, and are subject to the fallibility of man.
In addition, when you say that a text is “the word of G-d”, you raise that text to the level of being a G-d itself. This is a violation of the first commandment. ( I prefer to call these common sense rules commandments. You can have your fancy talk about Decalogue.) Also, just because I don’t consider your magic book to be the word of G-d, that does not mean I cannot appreciate parts of it as commonsense rules for living. Maybe that is an authority for truth, but it is easier for me to follow if I just consider it good advice.
As for your question…what is your authority for truth?…there are several reactions:
1- Maybe that should be plural. There is more than one authority.
2- Are you familiar with the concept of authoritarianism? There is a psychological scale that measures authoritarianism, aka dogmatism and facism. People have different rankings in this scale. I hesitate to say that this is a matter of right and wrong. Maybe some people like to think for themselves, and don’t believe everything they are told…even if there is language in a magic book that agrees with it.
3- I trust what I see, hear, smell, taste, and feel. There is the possibility of deception in all these senses, which should be accounted for. However, I am sometimes correct in what I sense, even if lots of people tell me I am wrong.
4- The importance of trust should not be underestimated. Not everyone who is telling you something is telling the truth, or has good motives. If you do not trust this person, then he is speaking in vain. For more information about this, see the third commandment.
5- Some people believe things because it is correct. Some people believe things because they think good things will happen when they have these beliefs.
Maybe this is not the best answer to your question, but it will do for now. Thank you for allowing me to continue this conversation, without resorting to personal attacks and/or “banning” me. You are a better person for having done so.





Saul gave his reply, which is in the transcript. PG answered:
1-You don’t have to shout.
2-The middle three letters of believe are lie.
3- Philosophy is the disease, for that which it is supposed to be the cure.
4– Philosophy is useless, theology worse. Dire Straights
5- This is why I like to post pictures. If you get tired of the text, you can always look at the pictures.
6- I am not sure there is a difference between G-d and man. Where do you draw the line?
7- The justification of authority is one of the oldest dilemmas faced by man.
8- A man who says “I don’t know” is usually telling the truth, except when under oath.
9- I just don’t know about this G-d and authority business.
10- Even the best top ten lists can use a bit of filler.
Saul replied by promoting the Jesus worship scheme for life after death. PG replied: “Jesus was killed because he was a troublemaker, That has nothing to do with life after death. Trust G-d to take care of you after you die. If talking about Jesus helps you to do this, fine.”
PG had seen a show on PBS about The Buddha . There was talk about Mr. Siddhartha’s ideas about life after death, which PG wanted to bring into the conversation. When he found the transcript, there was also a comment about spiritual authority, and thinking for yourself. At 4:20 pm, on June 7, this comment went out:
I went looking for the transcript of a PBS special about Gautama Siddhartha. Some say he is the Buddha. ( If we are going to question whether or not Jesus is the Christ, I suppose it is fair to wonder if Gautama Siddhartha is the Buddha.) This transcript is not the inerrant word of G-d, but it gives us some ideas about the legend of the Buddha. I found the quote about Life after Death that I was looking for, and I will share it with you. As a bonus, I found a quote about the Authority of Truth. Sometimes, all you have to do is look.
“Siddhartha had put his faith in two gurus. They hadn’t helped him. He had punished his mind and body. That had almost killed him. Now, he knew what he must do: to find the answer to his questions, he would look within, and trust himself. …
There are stories of people coming to the Buddha, and saying, “I am leaving your teaching because you have not told me about whether there is a life after death, or whether there is another world. And the Buddha says, ‘Did I ever say that I would give you the answers to these things?’ ‘No, Lord, you didn’t.’ ‘Why do you think that I ever said that I would give you the answer to these things? Because these are not the things that you need to know. The thing that you need to know is how to deal with suffering, because at this very moment, what made you ask that question was suffering.”
Saul replied: “Buddha is dead, Christ lives, and the Bible gives detailed instructions to Christians about how to think, how to pray, and what to do in the midst of suffering. ” PG replied:
“The physical bodies of both men are long gone. The nature of their souls is open to speculation. If Jesus is indeed alive, it is as a spirit that lives in the hearts of his believers. This is how I know Jesus, through his believers. It is much more reliable than a book compiled by a Catholic committee.
The lifespan of the hero is not an issue in Buddhism. ( I don’t know much about Mr. Siddhartha’s religion. There may be a sect that thinks he is still alive, in some form or fashion.) In any event, I don’t see how this affects their teachings.
The Bible is a cause of suffering. The Bible teaches people to hate gay people. This is a major problem. While this may not be the intention of the Council of Nicea, it is the 21st century effect. If Jesus is a living critter, then he is changing and evolving. From what I see, Jeus is nothing I want anything to do with. The vulgar claims regarding life after death do not make Jboi any more palatable.”
Saul wrote back, and said it was time to take this dialog to private email. PG wrote back:
I am Luther Mckinnon, aka chamblee54.
I don’t see much else to discuss. It seems apparent that we are talking at cross purposes here ( pun not intended). I have told you my views on authority and life after death, and you keep coming back with the same rhetoric.
You might consider that I was raised in the Southern Baptist Tradition. I decided when I was 17 that I did agree with them. I have had dalliances with Daishonin Buddhism and the Unification Church. They did not do much for me. I have settled into the ideas I have about G-d through thought and prayer. I do not claim to have all the answers, but am comfortable with my ideas.
I have heard the Jesus worship scheme for life after death thousands of times. I simply do not agree with it. I feel that the attention given to life after death is misplaced. Hearing a few verses from the Bible, and hearing about the scheme for yet another time, is not going to change my mind.
When you “preach” to me without trust, you are speaking in vain. This is part of what the third commandment speaks about.
As you may know, I have my own blog. I like to write about religion. This dialog would be good material for this blog…if you don’t like the text, you can always enjoy the pictures. If you object to me using your words, then I can leave them out. If you don’t object to this, then I can include them, to show your side of this discussion.
Once again, thank you for hearing me out, and not throwing a hissy fit and banning me. That is the easy way out, and to your credit you did not do this.
At this time, Saul has not replied.